Agents of Change

Fall is the time when activities start back up and many of us reassess our lives – I’ve always found this a more fruitful time for making resolutions than the New Year, myself.  In D.C. things are getting busy, too, and I hope you’ll sit up and take notice.

Today was the fall team meeting of the Supporting Families Community of Practice (SF CoP).  In its fifth year now, this has served as an important forum for D.C. practitioners, parents, persons with disabilities and others to provide feedback, develop new initiatives, and brainstorm how to make D.C. a more disability-inclusive community.  Great progress has been made, and to my mind, this has also proven how essential the State Office of Disability Administration has proven to be.  As the oversight and policy arm of DDS, the SODA - through initiatives like the SF CoP - has guided development of vision and direction for District-wide disability initiatives, and the SF CoP in particular has allowed us to dream together about an altogether different future.  If you aren’t already on the SF CoP bandwagon, then contact Alison Whyte (alison.whyte@dc.gov) or Rhonda White (rwhite@dcqualitytrust.org) and climb aboard.

This Saturday, October 15, will be the next Project Action! meeting, 10-12 at the Kennedy School (801 Buchanan St. NE).   This is an organization by and for self-advocates, so they can share expertise about individual advocacy as well as make themselves heard on policies and legislation that affect their lives.  Project Action! has lobbied strenuously for the Citizens with Intellectual Disabilities Civil Rights Restoration Act, and even though HHS committee chair Yvette Alexander seems ready to let that bill to die in committee (for shame!), this group scored a recent success by getting the council to reinstate partial funding for Transport DC.  Bravo!  This organization gets more active every day but needs new folks – how about some of the younger ones?  It all starts with showing up.

Also on Saturday, the annual luncheon of the D.C. Autism Society of America chapter (https://www.facebook.com/brightpuzzle/) will take place.  I’ve written before about DCASA and the families who, so far ahead of the curve, banded together to ensure their family members would have not only housing and supports, but a community and social life to follow them through their lifespan.  Over the summer I visited their camp outside Frederick, and a couple of weeks ago I attended one of their regular meetings at which they were exploring opportunities to partner with the Autistic Self-Advocacy Network.  If you’re concerned about the future for people with autism in the District (Reminder! No autism supports in DC if you’re over the IQ cutoff!), then for heaven’s sake reach out and get involved with DCASA.

A couple of other tidbits:

-          Take a look at the new five-year plan for D.C.’s Developmental Disabilities Council, which has some fabulous new initiatives oriented toward employment and advocacy opportunities:  http://ddc.dc.gov/page/final-ddc-five-year-plan-2017-2021.

 

-          Plan to attend or tune in on Thursday 10/20 when the HHS committee of the D.C. council holds a public roundtable to consider Andy Reese’s nomination to head DDS (he’s only acting director now): http://dccouncil.us/events/hhs-public-roundtable.

And one more thing!  As you know if you’ve been reading regularly, the Quality Trust for Individuals with Disabilities was set up in 2001 by court order to monitor the safety and appropriateness of the supports folks were receiving from DDS, and to advocate for improvements in those services.  Fifteen years on, QT is still playing this crucial role while also developing a growing national footprint through its work on Supported Decision Making (http://supporteddecisionmaking.org).  Out of appreciation for the help QT had provided my family, I joined the board two years ago, and now I understand even better how essential and unique this organization is.   We’re looking for new folks to fill some key gaps on the board – so think about it: http://www.dcqualitytrust.org.

I know we’re all tired from the individual advocacy we do, day in day out.  But it takes more systematic, shared and sustained effort to make change happen. I hope you'll choose to be a part of it.

Live and Learn

As I did around this time last year, I want to use this near-anniversary of my blog to look back and take stock.  What are some of the lessons I’ve learned over the past two years, my son’s first two years receiving disability supports from DDA and my first two years writing this blog?

There are plenty of acronyms in this posting so check the Acronyms and Organizations page!

-          When I started this blog I thought I had a lot of answers, answers to questions that others must be asking about how the D.C. Medicaid-waiver system works and how to work that system.  I thought I was a trailblazer, but I was wrong.  A lot of people have come before me, and are alongside me now.  They’re just advocating in different ways.  I’ve also learned a lot from families who have more experience with RSA than with DDA.  So I’m humbler now, but still very proud and happy when I learn my blog has helped someone better understand their choices or motivated some new folks to speak out.

-          I began my blog believing Laura Nuss, then director of DDS, was dragging everyone – DDA staff, existing providers – into the 21^st century kicking and screaming.  There was some truth to that, but it’s more complicated.  The more I understand about the way things work, the better I can see some of the other actors – DHCF, the mayor’s office, the council, and above all, the federal-level Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services – that constrain and drive many of DDS’s actions.  I’ve also gotten to know a lot of dedicated folks working inside DDS and various organizations, and many are highly motivated to do the right thing and push for improvements (some have family members with disabilities themselves).  So now I see not just a big puzzle, but a lot of jigsaw pieces.

-          This doesn’t mean that everyone is equally well intentioned, or that change isn’t needed.  Those who work closely with me know I’m very determined, demanding in fact, about where I see room for improvement.  I talk often with others about their perspectives as well.  Even with the progress of the past few years – and there has been a lot of progress - over and over again DDA demonstrates that the right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is doing, and this causes wasted effort and extra stress and strain for provider organizations that already are stretched thin.  And the providers have immense difficulties of their own, in particular with internal coordination – in part, though not totally, because of high staff turnover.

-          And speaking of turnover - I’ve also learned over the past couple of years that the world of disability services in this city can get pretty incestuous.  Even though I understand why it happens, it worries me a little each time that someone moves from a provider agency into DDS.  It makes me wonder whether they were lobbying for the job for a long while, and whether that colored their decisions and performance.  More broadly, sometimes I feel things get too “cozy” in our small, city-based system and I wish there were more organizations and individuals bringing independent voices to the table.

-          I try to be careful about this myself.  Once you “raise your hand” and start coming to meetings, advocating, and testifying, you start getting invited to every event and onto every board, committee or working group that’s formed.  There are a lot – a dizzying number - and although they’re all worthy efforts, the way they all relate to one another can be very unclear.  Beyond that, I weigh my interest in participating, advocating, and staying informed against the need to stay independent so I’m not seen as a mouthpiece for DDS.  Because, let’s face it, 90% of the time it’s DDS that’s convening all these groups and meetings.  This is my problem to resolve, but I hope I do a good enough job in this regard.

-          And then there’s me as a parent.  Because I am.  And quite a lot of the advocacy I’m doing day to day is personal, on behalf of my son.  I look for the right balance in that regard, too.  I look for the balance between advocating for him, and pushing him to advocate for himself.  I gauge where and when I should be involved directly and when I should be relying on his support agencies to step up - because, as we all know, we won’t always be here.  And what I’ve learned is that while DDS and providers are looking to be family-centered as well as person-centered nowadays, there isn’t yet a good system for how to make that real.  There are no natural entry points for family involvement in the ISP process and most documents are shared through electronic systems to which families don’t have access, so you just have to keep asking for hard copies and have your say the best you can.  It’s messy for everyone, even with the best of intentions.

And maybe that’s the thought I should end on. Like many others, I was until two years ago accustomed to school-based services under the IDEA.  The world of Medicaid waivers and vocational rehabilitation is indeed a completely different planet, and “messy” is the best adjective I can come up with.  But that’s for those getting supports, and for those who need but don’t get them the problem goes way beyond messy.  And that may be the most important lesson of all.

Can't Say I'm Surprised

I returned yesterday from a family vacation to the news that the director of D.C.’s Department on Disability Services has been named.  The new director is none other than Andy Reese, who has been interim director since Laura Nuss’s departure in early April.  Here’s the mayor’s press release:  http://mayor.dc.gov/release/mayor-muriel-bowser-names-andrew-reese-director-dc-department-disability-services. 

This isn’t surprising news, of course, and it will assure continuity in DDS.  That’s good in some ways since any new director from outside D.C. would have had a very steep learning curve.  And Andy is a D.C. native with a lot of relevant experience, as the press release points out.  On the other hand, inside DDS his focus has been on RSA, and his prior work has mainly been with children and young adults.  This means he’ll need to put extra effort into getting on top of DDA and the Medicaid waiver, and issues affecting adults with disabilities in D.C. more generally.  I also hope that Andy will “warm up” in his public interactions, since he often has seemed more at ease with facts, numbers and other technicalities and not as comfortable relating to the people affected by RSA and DDA programs.   

Andy will have Jared (Morris, deputy director for DDA) and others inside DDA to help him out, but he’ll need for all of us to provide support and advocacy.

And on the subject of advocacy – The council will be back in session mid-month.  Now is the time to make your voice heard – especially with councilmembers Yvette Alexander and Kenyan McDuffie – to get bill B21-0385 onto the agenda of the Health and Human Services and Judiciary committees.  Read “Yes, You Really Can Do Something” from July 19 and earlier posts under the Advocacy label to get the background on this, or enter “B21-0385” or “commitment” into the box over to the right that says, “Search this blog.”

Project Action!, the very active self-advocates’ group coordinated by Heidi Case, is working hard to keep B21-0385 moving through the council, and is also active on other issues such as transportation concerns affecting persons with mobility issues and the upcoming November elections.  Here’s the flyer for Saturday’s Project Action! meeting:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B489LE-2ltOgWHFIS0t0MFQ2RXc/view?usp=sharing.  Do your best to attend or facilitate attendance at this important meeting.

Things Don't Always Turn Out as Planned!

Just yesterday, I reported that I would be serving today on the first round of selection for the new DDS director.  Yet here I am, writing another blog post instead.  The panel is indeed interviewing, but I decided not to be a part of the process. 

As part of the pre-interview briefing, Mr. Walker, whom I’ve mentioned in earlier blog posts (May 12 and May 26 of this year), passed out the non-disclosure agreement each of us was expected to sign.  It was small print, 4 or 5 pages (but who’s counting?), and in my personal opinion it was overly broad – way more restrictive than any personnel-related agreement I ever had to sign in my 30-plus years in government.  But whether I’m right in my opinion about it or not, we all frankly could and should have seen the agreement in advance - it certainly would have saved me a trip to the Wilson Building!  I knew, as I wrote in this blog yesterday, that I would need to protect the confidentiality of the specific candidates and their answers in the interview, but if I had signed I would have been unable to mention what topics were discussed today for two whole years!  To me, that would be inconsistent with my primary role of information sharing and issue advocacy, and I simply don’t want to have to ask myself when I sit down to write, “Now when exactly did I hear that information?”  I can be much more useful to the community by keeping the issues on the table, as openly as I can.  And let’s face it, the issues facing the District’s disability community just aren’t that much of a secret!

And I’ll tell you straight – the room was full of very able folks who will make sure the right questions get asked, and I hope most of them long ago read my post, “Here’s What I Would Ask” (May 26, 2016).  I did want to add a new question today about the balance between the CMS rulemaking on community-based supports and person-centered planning, an issue I raised in “Who’s Watching Out?” (February 13, 2016), but I’m not sure that would have made the cut since there wouldn’t be time for everyone’s questions.  In the end, my own two-cents’ worth would have been unlikely to tip the balance in the interview process today, and in any case there are going to be other rounds of interviews going forward, including one with the ultimate decision maker, the mayor herself. 

So hey, I have no idea who walked through the door after I left.  What I do know is that, whoever winds up as Laura Nuss’s successor, I’ll still be here to pester them.  And in the meantime – panel members, all readers, maybe Madame Mayor herself – keep reading.

August Update

The past few weeks have turned out to be pretty busy ones for me.  I hope some of you are enjoying a bit of vacation, and if all goes well I’m hoping to get some of that a little later this month!  In the meantime, here are some updates:

Project Action! folks got some quality time with a number of council staff on July 26, but unfortunately Yvette Alexander’s office didn’t agree to meet with them.  So – especially for folks from Ward 7 -  put the pressure on Councilmember Alexander (and others!) for a hearing on B21-0385 as soon as the council’s back in session in mid-September.

Quality Trust’s July 31 cruise on the Potomac was one of the best I’ve been on.  It was well attended, and great fun in spite of the steamy weather – most everyone stayed inside where there was air conditioning.  QT plays an essential role in advocacy and monitoring for folks receiving support in the District – so even if you didn’t make it on the cruise, give them your support year-round.  (And yes, I’m on the board.)  Next year the event will be on dry land.

I was surprised to get an email about a week ago from the mayor’s Office of Talent and Appointments – the folks running the effort to replace Laura Nuss as head of DDS (check the separate page on acronyms if you don’t know what DDS is).  Tomorrow will be the first round of interviews for candidates who’ve applied for the position, and I’ll be there along with some other people who are involved in local disability issues.  There will be two more rounds of interviews after that  (see my posts, “Here’s the Scoop” from May 12 and “Here’s What I Would Ask” from May 26) so there won’t be any definitive results from tomorrow’s meetings, but I’m encouraged things are starting to move.  I won’t be able to provide specifics about the candidates given the nature of the process, but I’m  hoping to be impressed by the folks who’ve applied for the position.

Maybe I’ll have something more to write before the end of this month, but if not, watch this space in September.  And – small personal mention – this month marks two years that I’ve been writing my blog.  I sincerely hope you get something out of reading it.  Speaking for myself, it’s brought a large number of people into my life that I didn’t know two years ago, and I am so much the richer for having met you. 

Yes, You Really Can Do Something

PLEASE CONTACT COUNCILMEMBERS YVETTE ALEXANDER AND KENYAN MCDUFFIE, AND YOUR OWN COUNCILMEMBER, TODAY TO EXPRESS SUPPORT FOR BILL #B21-0385 AND ASK FOR A HEARING TO BE SCHEDULED AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.  You can find all councilmembers’ addresses at:  http://dccouncil.us/council.  The Health and Human Services committee, chaired by Alexander, and the Judiciary committee, chaired by McDuffie, have joint responsibility for this bill.  

Please re-read my blog posts from this past winter, in particular “Overdue Change for the District” and “A New Year, A Chance for New Beginnings” if you need to be reminded what B21-0385 is about.  You’ll remember that the hearing scheduled for January 27 had to be cancelled due to the Snowzilla blizzard, but it has never been rescheduled.  A prompt hearing is needed so that the council has time to vote on the bill before it adjourns this year.

Folks in the legal profession can be very persuasive, and quite a few of them have a stake in keeping in place D.C.’s system of mandatory court commitment for people with intellectual disabilities.  It’s hard to fault them for advocating on behalf of their own self-interest and incomes.  They’ve been loud in their opposition to this bill, so loud that the committee chairs have gotten scared off and are trying to either avoid a hearing completely or to hold it so late that there won’t be time for a vote this year. 

So the two of them need to be told that a hearing has to take place as early as possible after the council returns from recess on September 15.  They also need to hear voices in favor of progress, voices in favor of civil rights, voices in favor of choice.  (Remember, this bill allows those currently under civil commitment for DDA services to choose to continue under the court system.)  Self-advocates from Project Action! (http://www.dcqualitytrust.org/advocates/join-project-action) are working overtime to write letters to the council, but the balance of power is in favor of D.C. lawyers right now and our friends with disabilities need your support!  Please flood the council with your emails and letters so they know not everyone is a lawyer with a stake in denying people their choice to receive services without court control. 

Even if you wrote the council back in the winter, WRITE AGAIN.  The time is now to get the hearing scheduled.  It won’t take you long.  One email to all three – the two committee chairs and your councilmember – will do the job.  BUT PLEASE DO IT.  

Running the Race

Summer’s here, and everything’s gone quiet:

-          Finding a replacement for Laura Nuss seems to be going nowhere fast.  Last I had heard (see “Here’s the Scoop,” May 12) the process of reviewing candidates was expected to get started around Memorial Day, but local disability organizations are hearing nothing from the mayor’s office about starting that process.  Andy Reese, the interim director, is settling in.

-          Yvette Alexander was defeated by former mayor Vincent Gray as the Democratic nominee for her seat on the D.C. council, so the long-delayed rescheduling of the joint hearing on the Citizens with Intellectual Disabilities Civil Rights Restoration Act (http://dccouncil.us/events/joint-health-human-services-judiciary-public-hearing-on-b21-385) is seeming even less likely to happen during this council session.

Summer doldrums are real, and it’s easy to feel discouraged.  But when advocating for change it pays to remember that old adage from Aesop’s fable about the tortoise and the hare, “Slow and steady wins the race.”

I was thinking about this when I attended the third public session of the D.C. statehood commission on June 13 (http://statehood.dc.gov).  Now THAT is an effort that’s been under way for decades, and the forces are still arrayed against allowing D.C. residents our full rights to representation in the U.S. House and Senate.  What’s almost worse is that those who live here are so used to the situation that few of us try to do anything about it.  This new effort, which may show up on the November ballot if it makes it through the council, deserves serious support and effort from all of us.

Think about how hard people with disabilities have pushed, and continue to push, for their civil rights.  As a matter of fact, while I was attending the statehood convention that morning, self-advocates from Project Action! were meeting to talk about how they can bring more pressure to bear to get B21-385 back onto the council agenda.  They aren’t giving up because they know how far things have come already and that, sooner or later, this odd relic of D.C.’s history, civil commitment, will finally be rolled aside.

But it all takes effort.  So I’d like to add extra pressure with some direct personal appeals:

-          Ms. Alexander, I’ve appreciated your hearing me out when I’ve testified before your committee, and you seem sincere about making progress on the rights of D.C. citizens with disabilities.  You could leave an important legacy by moving ahead on B21-385 – so give Council member McDuffie a call and say, “Let’s schedule that hearing!”

-          Mr. Walker, everyone’s wondering what’s up with the search for a new director of the Department on Disability Services.  There’s a meeting of the Supporting Families Community of Practice on July 11.  How about coming to talk to families about where the process stands?

-          Everyone - add your voice by posting a comment on these issues.  And while you’re reading, pay attention to the progress of the constitution for New Columbia through the D.C. council.  It may show up on the ballot in November, and it deserves your support.  Imagine how much more we could do about the future of our family members with disabilities if we actually had national voting representation.

Now I think of it, we need to have the impatience of the hare and the determination of the tortoise in the race.  And above all, don’t just stand there!

How We Change the World

My son voted for the first time last week, in early voting before Tuesday’s formal D.C. primary.  I convinced him to register a couple of years ago, but getting him actually to vote has been much harder.  I’ve had trouble understanding exactly why.  It could be because the cocoon of support around him still makes him feel childlike and fearful of “stepping out” into the adult world.  It could just be because it’s too much trouble to try to understand candidates and issues when listening to music is a lot more fun!  Whatever the reason, he came around.  But before going to vote, I insisted that we spend a little time talking about the positions and people on the primary ballot.  At first he said he didn’t want to come with me; then he called back and said he would, and he would let me “tell him who to vote for.”  I refused to do that, and tried to be as objective as I could in describing who was who: in the end he didn’t even ask whom I favored, and that made me happiest of all.

When we walked into the voting site, it was as empty as I had hoped.  I had written ahead to say he might be anxious and need my help with voting, and I had the Board of Elections response in my bag in case the issue came up.  But I know from monitoring polling places myself that there also are election workers available to help out.  We were the only two entering the room, so I told the volunteers that it was his first time voting, and they all clapped for him.  He instantly felt at ease, and walking in with confidence, he told me he didn’t need my help.  And he didn’t.  The only assistance he received was the same that I got – being shown how the new machines work, then how to print and proofread the ballot before feeding it into the tabulator.

Sure, I know how little our D.C. vote counts in the big picture (see yesterday’s Washington Post, https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/dead-last--again--among-us-primaries-dc-democrats-chafe-at-a-trivial-vote/2016/06/11/3c085fc0-2e62-11e6-9b37-42985f6a265c_story.html).  With our single (non-voting) member and a shadow D.C. representative on the ballot, I had gently tried to explain to him D.C.’s “special status” without launching into a tirade about taxation without representation.   Still, the local elections count for more, and I wanted him to be enthusiastic, not discouraged.

And yes, I still felt a mother’s pride when he slapped the “I Voted Early” sticker on his T-shirt and strutted out of the community center.  After all, every vote is about the future, not about the past, and one by one, little by little, votes and advocacy do bring change.  It’s harder to believe in positive change with the ugliness of this political season and the news of our latest mass shooting out of Orlando, but I truly believe the wavy line of history does tend toward the good. 

That comes primarily by people speaking up for themselves, including people with disabilities.  We parents sometimes have a hard time stepping out of the way and shedding our protective instincts, and I know I don’t always get that right myself.  But the more people with disabilities vote, speak up, are visible in our community, across the country and across the globe, the more they have the ability to change the world.  And maybe my son and the rest of his generation will also bring about, and live to see, the full civil rights of all the people in our nation’s capital.  I’m counting on him.

Here's What I Would Ask

I mentioned in my last blog post that Steve Walker, director of the mayor’s Office of Talent and Appointments, thought they would start reviewing candidates to succeed Laura Nuss this week.  So far, folks who would have expected to be involved in the first round haven’t been contacted.  Let’s hope there are some top-notch candidates who’ve expressed interest so things can get moving soon.  The annual meeting of the National Association of State Directors of Developmental Disabilities Services (NASDDS) will take place in a couple of weeks, and I hope there will be some lively lobbying there to get more people interested in applying.

I won’t be at the table for the selection of the new director, but if I were here are some questions I would want to ask:

•           What do you view as your greatest personal accomplishment in the past five years to improve the lives of adults with developmental disabilities?
•           Besides closeout of the Evans case, what will be your #1 priority if you are chosen for this position?
•           What is your personal record of advancing organizational change and motivating staff for sometimes unpopular reforms?
•           What actions have you taken in previous jobs to foster public transparency and increase give and take with stakeholders, including families?
•           How do you plan to approach the legislation on commitment that is currently under consideration in the D.C. council?
•           As director, would you advocate for broadening DC waiver services to citizens with autism or other developmental disabilities who do not have an intellectual disability?

For background on any of these questions, a good start for candidates or other readers would be to click on the Advocacy label in this blog and read some of my past postings.  If you have additional concerns, post a comment!  There’s a lot of work ahead to make things better in our city for citizens with developmental disabilities, and we want to be sure the new director builds on past progress and takes our hopes for the future to heart.

Here's the Scoop

It’s taken some doing, but at last I have a fairly clear picture of how Laura Nuss’s successor at DDS is going to be chosen.  The selection process is being handled by the mayor’s Office of Talent and Appointments (MOTA), headed by Steven Walker (steven.walker@dc.gov), in very close collaboration with the deputy mayor for Health and Human Services, Brenda Donald (Brenda.donald@dc.gov).   Based on conversations with Steve Walker, this is how I understand the process will unfold.

The position already is being advertised, with outreach through a number of different channels normally used for executive-level positions as well as more targeted advertisements to reach those already in positions similar to the DDS director job who might be interested in applying.  MOTA has not yet collected a large enough pool of candidates to move to the first round of consideration, and Walker is eager to receive specific names of individuals he might want to reach out to.  So if you know of someone – for example someone good in a DDS director or deputy DDS director job in another state – it’s important to let Steve Walker and Brenda Donald know.                  

By May 23 or so he hopes to have a pool of at least 4 or 5 viable candidates so that the first round of consideration can start.  This first round is most important for the disability community, because this initial panel will include stakeholders in addition to D.C. government representatives.  “Stakeholders” will definitely include representatives of DDS-affiliated commissions such as the State Rehabilitation Commission (SRC), the State Independent Living Commission (SILC), and the Developmental Disabilities Commission (DDC).  (See my page, “Acronyms and Organizations You Should Know,” for more background on these commissions.)  Beyond these, there are plans to include organizations such as the Quality Trust (http://www.dcqualitytrust.org), University Legal Services (http://www.uls-dc.org), and Georgetown’s University Center (http://ucedd.georgetown.edu), and hopefully also the Family Support Council and Project Action!  I have encouraged Steve to include representation by the local D.C. Autism Society chapter (http://www.autism-society.org/chapter130) as well, since the DDS-administered Medicaid waiver will hopefully extend eligibility beyond those with intellectual disabilities on the new director’s watch.  (See my earlier post, “On the Spectrum in D.C.,” October 23, 2014, at http://ddinwdc.blogspot.com/2014/10/on-spectrum-in-dc-theres-not-yet-much.html.)

After the field of candidates has been narrowed to the strongest 3 or 4, in a second round of consideration MOTA, the deputy mayor’s office, and the National Association of State Directors of National Disabilities Services (NASDDDS, https://www.nasddds.org) will examine these candidates and narrow them down to a final 2 or 3, with the final round including Mayor Bowser, Deputy Mayor Donald, the city administrator, and the mayor’s chief of staff to make the final selection of an individual who will go before the council for final confirmation.

As I look at this process, I would anticipate that Andy will be acting throughout the summer.  I’ll do my best to keep you as informed as I can as I learn more about the timing.